Curse

McMullen · Dec 11, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I was always under the impression that the structures were built underground and raised up by the asura when they became threatened by the destroyers.

Friar Khan · Dec 11, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheena Inverse

I would suggest rather that for the asura, who are not a young race, this would not have been thier first dealings with building surface structures. Like most races they probably started out on the surface and moved underground as thier culture developed. Thus leaving behind the old structures that strongly resemble thier newer structures in designe. The humans and others have ancient structures all over the place, so why not the asura too. Gives you a sense of more history in the game.

This is similar to my assumption when I encountered the ruins. Although I believe they started underground and were driven to the surface once before in their ancient history. After scanning all the arguments in this thread it still seems the most reasonable explanation. I say this because

1) The Tarnished Coast ruins all resemble structures built by the Asura (assuming the npcs aren't disseminating misinformation info, lol)
2) Mursaat archetecture in Prophecies is distinctly different from Asuran

Also, according to it's page on the official wiki, Rata Sum was built by Asurans since emerging from their underground dwellings. Wiki lists this as in-game info, but I haven't tried to figure out where it's from. I'd say that Rata Sum looks overgrown simply because the Jungle grows quickly.

Overall I wouldn't be surprised if Anet makes something out of the Rata Sum/Mursaat anagram, but with the currently available information I see no evidence of Mursaat buildings in the Tarnished Coast.

Lastly, it's kinda odd that Erff considers the best location to be the one with a severely off-level ruin. Unless the ancient asura had no clue about creating building foundation it would seem there's something inherent to that place that undermines foundation, like a faultline or something.

super strokey · Dec 12, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Im not sure if this has been addressed but who made the Eye of the north? I cant find out who and it doesnt look asuran

Onarik Amrak · Dec 12, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by super strokey

Im not sure if this has been addressed but who made the Eye of the north? I cant find out who and it doesnt look asuran

It's not Norn, Asuran, Human or Dwarven.

No one knows... except Anet.

Whisper Evenstar · Dec 12, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by super strokey

Im not sure if this has been addressed but who made the Eye of the north? I cant find out who and it doesnt look asuran

Not sure if you ever read the Dragonlance novels back in the day, but there is a tower in them that is used to trap dragons and kill them. EOTN reminds me of this tower...

Now, jump to GW2 and look at the dragon theme...

I'm not saying this is necessarily what ANet has in store, but it was the first thing that crossed my mind... and its fun to imagine

super strokey · Dec 13, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I think its going to be a major icon in gw2 for sure. I bet we need to find it... again.

arcanemacabre · Dec 13, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friar Khan

This is similar to my assumption when I encountered the ruins. Although I believe they started underground and were driven to the surface once before in their ancient history.

Well, if we assume evolution in the GW world, I would say that the Asura were definitely not an underground race initially. The reason for this is the fact that they have eyes. Most underground species over time lose their sight, and eventually their eyes all together. Some moles have permanent skin that covers their eyes because they are never used, and in GW, this is of course evident in the Dredge. Asura have larger eyes that appear to be mostly pupil, which suggests that they at least lived near the surface, and frequently went to the surface, possibly at night.

Being that they are so small and mostly harmless (intelligence aside), like mice and rats, they probably just went underground to escape predators in their more recent history (few thousand years ago). Seeing as they are mostly scattered around the Tarnished Coast, they were probably trying to escape those ridiculously large dinosaur-like nasties. So, I suppose it is likely that any of these structures are from ancient Asura, back when they lived above-ground.

There is another possibility - The Forgotten. Here is an excerpt from the Lore of Tyria in the manual and on the main site:

Quote:

From the Tarnished Coast in the west to the Bay of Sirens (now called the Sea of Sorrows) in the south, from the far eastern reaches of the Crystal Desert to the Giants' Basin on the northern coast of Kryta, Tyria flourished under the protection of these mystical creatures.(Referring to the Forgotten)

Quote:

Seeing that the world had changed, and preferring not to fight a war over control of the continent, the serpents retreated from the world of men. They left the coasts and the jungles. They abandoned their settlements in the highlands and in the mountains. Leaving the newcomers be, the serpents went to live in the only place where we humans did not—or could not—the Crystal Desert.

Now, I'm pretty sure the buildings that are known to be Forgotten architecture are the tower-like structures that can be seen at Watchtower Coast and Lion's Arch. I'm thinking this because Watchtower Coast borders Giant's Basin, and Lion's Arch borders the Sea of Sorrows, two of the locations said to have been inhabited by the Forgotten before humans rolled in, and also that they appear to be together similar, yet different from Krytan structures.

That said, those structures are still around. The Forgotten also inhabited the Tarnished Coast; doesn't that mean some of their buildings would still be around there? As magical as they were, wouldn't they also be "bleeding" magic? Sure, it's different architecture, but it could have looked like what we see in the Watchtower Coast before the Asura got a hold of it and "remodeled" it.

Just throwing this out there: what if the Asura were actually created by the Forgotten?

mazey vorstagg · Dec 13, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I'm fairly sure those towers are made by the White Mantel. They've got white Mantel flag's on them. I know I'm one to moan about the reuse of skins, but I really think they're too big a mistake for anet to make if they didn't mean them to be Lionguard or White Mantel.

As far as I know there isn't any Forgotten Architecture, but I presume it would be like the stuff you find in the HoH because they're the children of the gods.

super strokey · Dec 13, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I bet the Eye is forgotten, its old and not made by any of the races.

mazey vorstagg · Dec 13, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

I'm thinking the Eye is Forgotten too

arcanemacabre · Dec 14, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

I'm fairly sure those towers are made by the White Mantel. They've got white Mantel flag's on them. I know I'm one to moan about the reuse of skins, but I really think they're too big a mistake for anet to make if they didn't mean them to be Lionguard or White Mantel.

But it doesn't follow any other architecture in that area (or any other area for that matter). Plus, if you pay attention to the one tower at Watchtower Coast, you will see a teleporter pad exactly like the ones in the Crystal Desert, where the Forgotten are now. Coincidence? The presence of flags could simply mean the White Mantle claimed the ruins for themselves. They are quite the conquering people like that.

Hero's Ascent, maybe. I could see that. Same with the Eye of the North, except the story never says anything about the Far North, or even the Shiverpeaks at all. That doesn't mean much, though, just throwing that out there.

Vicks · Dec 15, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

The Mursaat hidden city was described as extremely tall towers. Now, I haven't really gotten a good lookaround of Rata Sum, but I'll ask those of you who have GW:EN whether you think those ruins look like they could be collapsed from colossal towers or not.

Also... doesn't it seem a little too far geographically from the Ullen River to be the Mursaat capitol? I mean, it was supposed to have cast a shadow over the entire Ullen River basin due to being cloaked by magic but still blocking out the sun.

mazey vorstagg · Dec 20, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Right I was at the liar of the forgotten yesterday. Which we know was a fortress built by them.

The architecture there is similar to the ruins in the crystal desert (the ones that would make sense to have been built by the Elonians, but obviously not). They built the arches and the towers and the giant statue of the warrior, so it seems.

Neriandal Freit · Dec 20, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

Right I was at the liar of the forgotten yesterday. Which we know was a fortress built by them.

The architecture there is similar to the ruins in the crystal desert (the ones that would make sense to have been built by the Elonians, but obviously not). They built the arches and the towers and the giant statue of the warrior, so it seems.

Are you sure? I mean, you did visit the liar of the forgotten and could be horribly mistaken...

Guildmaster Cain · Dec 20, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Maybe Rata Sum already existed, prior to the Asura surfacing. But when they moved in, it was in ruins and they started to rebuild parts. That is why Rata Sum seems a mixture of two different styles. One is somewhat Mayan ancient architecture, the other is the architecture they use in Central Transfer Chamber, like the floating cube-like things in the middle of Rata Sum.

Maybe the Mayan style was from the Mursaat that got flushed out by the Titans.

Morgoroth · Jan 01, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Maybe the Mursaat were once a human/humanoid nation on the Tarnished Coast that decided to make a trip to Crystal Desert and try to ascend? Their ascension attempt failed, but they managed to make their way out of the desert. Disillusioned and having lost the purpose in their live, they might have just wandered for a bit, then one of the great dragons found them, twisting both their mind and body? Then the dragon fell into it's slumber and the Mursaat retreat to RoF, waiting for him to awaken and maybe becoming partly indipendent, exploring areas around RoF and such. I doubt it fits in the timeline, but I couldn't resist makind those wild speculations

Edit : Tried to add some grammar, failed I'm afraid

Longasc · Jan 07, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00

The whole Mursaat/Asura connection seems quite forced to me, on ANet's part. They live in roughly the same area, yeah... but that was it.

ANet makes a connection between the two, you can even summon a Mursaat with Asura skills.

* But are the Mursaat ever mentioned by the Asura themselves? What do they have to do with each other?
* Do the Mursaat not have their very own agendas?
* Where is the Mursaat City that Saul d'Alessio found?

I do not have so much problems with the Asuras building surface structures. It is indeed odd that they look old and weathered, but nothing speaks against the theory that Rata Sum could be an early surface outpost of the Asurans.

The Mursaat were keeping the bloodstones and the door of Komalie under control. Not the Asurans. Where the main settlements of the Mursaat were is still unknown. The Ring of Fire is totally controlled by the Mursaat. Saul found a city in a jungle, however.

It does not fit together too well. Saul was also depicated as an old and gaunt man, a former alcohol drinker and gambler. In the BMP, he looks like a strong young man with a bit too much fat on his ribs.

They probably did not give a damn about making their minds up where the city is actually. And about a proper connection with the Asura probably neither.

The Mayan style seems to be just leftover patchwork from Utopia...

Beeb beeb · Jan 07, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

The mursaat you summon with the asura skill is just a polymock.

mazey vorstagg · Jan 07, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Yes Longasc you are right, but we're lore people! We like to make excuses for holes in the plot!

-Makai- · Jan 08, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

I think the Asuran buildings are leftovers from the Kingdom of Orr. Since Shards of Orr is between the major Asuran areas, it would make sense.

Does the mythos say the entire kingdom sank into the sea?